Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: System building time!
Banzai Forums 7.0 > Banzai Public Forums > Mechwarrior Help Center
Wildcard
Believe it or not, it's been almost 3 years - which means it's that time again.

I come seeking assistance from the Banzai hardware gurus, because it's time to help 'Card build a new rig. Again. cool.gif


Description:
At this point, I've built a bunch of machines, and while I'm not exactly an uber-geek or anything, I'm reasonably confident about most of this stuff. The problem? I just don't stay on top of hardware issues and trends at all. I try to, but unless I'm actually in the process of building something, reading Tom's or HardOCP articles just makes my eyes bleed. So since I don't stay on top of it, when I try shopping for parts my knowledge is completely out of date.


Challenge:
If you were me, knowing what you know and having the same parameters listed below, what would you build? The person who describes the system I end up building will get a free sig image, for this forum or any other, this game or any other, with whatever callsign you choose. (I'd probably do that anyway if you asked, but it's about all I have to offer in terms of incentive)


Parameters:
1. All parts will be ordered from NewEgg, so when you post your build if you could link me to the relevant items on NewEgg that would be really helpful.
2. Don't worry about the case. Like my current machine, I'll be building it in another rackmount server case ('cause I just think they're cool as hell) and I'll choose that myself, but anything that will fit into a standard case will fit easily into a rackmount unit, so don't worry about that.
3. You have $1500 to work with. Total cost will be around $2K, but $500 of that will go towards case and monitors, so you have $1.5K just for parts.
4. Most rackmounts don't come with a power supply, so please include one in your build.
5. I've got keyboards, mice, surround-sound speakers, etc. - so don't worry about all of that stuff.


Guidance:
I'll do a lot of photo editing with it, so lots of RAM would be nice. 2GB is kind of a minimum, but more would be better.

About the only games I'm playing right now are Combat Mission: Shock Force (which would run on a Commodore 64, I think) and Flight Simulator X (which would really benefit from a good video card) but in the future I probably wouldn't mind trying Quake Wars, so something that would run that smoothly would be nice.

If given the option, I generally prefer two hard drives over one big one. I need a pretty fair amount of space. My music library alone is somewhere up around 60GB, and my photos are pushing that point too. (you use a lot of space when you start playing with RAW files)

As far as the OS is concerned... Vista doesn't move me, but I've got it on my laptop and for the most part it's indistinguishable from WinXP so I don't really care. Either one is fine.

I need a lot of USB ports. My printer needs one, my Blackberry needs one, my MP3 player needs one, my cameras need at least one available, and my mouse and keyboard each need one. Oh, and my weather station needs one too. See? That's seven right there and I haven't even mentioned any gaming peripherals.

Having several old-fashioned PCI slots on the MOBO would be good too, if possible. I've found my triple-monitor set-ups work best with simple and cheap PCI cards for the secondary and tertiary displays.


...and I guess that's about it. Any questions?
Gwydion
QUOTE (Wildcard @ Sep 12 2007, 11:09 PM)
Any questions?
*

[Insert random question that has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand]?

*Cue laughter*
Archlight
My only question is do you have the simple and cheap PCI secondary and tertiary vid cards you speak of or do those need to be included in the price?

Oh and do you have an nVidia/ATI, Intel/AMD preference?
Archlight
Here's a link to a "high end" build. Granted, it's from June so things may have changed, but both the Intel and AMD builds seem pretty solid to me. Just double the RAM and pare away the fluff that you don't need and I think it should be around 1500 for either system, without shipping, and most likely, prices will have come down, I'll work on a Newegg breakdown, but this is a start.

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/MHGSBG...0707_3684486__1
Archlight
OK, here's the NewEgg breakdown, I just posted up the excel file I did. Unfortunately it seems with the new boards you're going to take a hit on the classic PCI slots and get only 2. If someone can find a board that can handle that processor/memory combo and have more PCI's use that. I only did a cursory look. It's $154 over budget, but perhaps you can drop from 1 TB of hard drive to 500 GB to save.

OK, I can't attach files to posts for some reason, I'll e-mail it to you if you tell me where you'd like it sent.
ThrashDog
ASUS P5K Motherboard, P35 chipset
Intel Core 2 Duo E6850, 3.0GHz
G.SKILL 4GB(2x2GB) DDR2-800 kit
MSI GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB
2x Hitachi DeskStar 500GB HDs
Lite-On DVD burner with LightScribe
Seasonic 650W PSU

Total comes out to $1470.92 before taxes. No OS, of course, but you should be able to snag an OEM copy of Vista for around $100, which you could cover by dropping to 400GB hard drives or so. You only get 6 USB ports off the motherboard, but you're honestly not going find much more than than on many other boards and you could always use a hub. You might also look at downgrading to a 320MB 8800GTS, depending on how high the resolution of your displays will be and how much you like high levels of anti-aliasing in your games.
Fury
Can't help so much on the build, but I can say that getting a usb hub is probably a better bet (whether it's an internal or external hub). With my last build I got a gorgeous Antec case that had two usb ports on the front, and sadly they crapped out within a week. One of my primary requirements has always been that I needed to have ports on the *front* of the machine- things like cameras, headsets, etc are only plugged in when they are in use, and having to dig around in the cable jungle at the back of the machine makes that process a massive pain in the ass. I discovered most hubs are also designed where the ports face the back, rather than to the front. This make Fury not a happy girl- so I was looking for the internal card that would fit into the 3.5 drive bay. I still may get one of those with the multiple card readers, but what I picked out at the time was one of these, since it seemed to have an abundance of available ports, *and* it faced front in a nice, compact little box that was easy to tuck up under my monitor and be out of the way:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16817182057

Of course, it appears to have gotten some lousy reviews of late- but I can say that mine has worked perfectly. But, considering Newegg's return policy, and the highly economical price of the unit- it may be worth taking a gamble on.
Mentawl
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80562Q6600 - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16819115017
$279.99

4 cores running at 2.4ghz. What's not to like? One of the best price-performance CPUs out there. Doesn't even run too hot. Retail boxed version comes with a thermally-controlled fan too, which is nice.

DFI BLOOD IRON P35-T2RL LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...38&Tpk=P35-T2RL
$139.99

I'm partial to DFI motherboards, and this one has a cool name and the latest Intel chipset. Plus it has 6 USB ports on the back panel connectors, and another 3 headers for extra USB ports free. Also has the option for SATA Raid, which can give additional options for storage (see below)

G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820231122
$199.99

4GB of Ram is the way to go nowadays, IMO. I'd go for 4gb myself if I was building one now - 2GB is pushing it for my machine, especially running Vista (ick - remind me to reinstall XP when I get back off this job).

HITACHI Deskstar T7K500 HDT725032VLA360 (0A33435) 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM ******x2******
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16822145129
$66.99 x 2

Two 320GB HDs. Can be configured seperately, or use the onboard SATA Raid to create a "mirror" array for excellant fault tolerance - if a drive dies, you lose nothing.

Sony NEC Optiarc 18X DVD±R DVD Burner with 12X DVD-RAM Write Black SATA Model AD-7170S-0B - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16827152079
$31.99

SATA DVD burner - nice n shiny. This is a black one, choose another if necessary for your case choice. I'd go with SATA, as there are a limited number of PATA interfaces on newer boards in general (although the one I linked above does have a single, 2-device ATA channel).

SAMSUNG Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive Windows 98SE/ ME/ 2000/ XP - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16821103203
$6.99

Don't think you can do without a floppy drive. Sometimes, it's needed. I often have to plug a FDD into my machine, even though I don't have one permanantly mounted.

EVGA 640-P2-N821-AR GeForce 8800GTS 640MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814130071
$369.99

Currently the best price-for-good-performance king. Can get a 320mb version if you want to save a little, but the 320mb version can choke a little at resolutions above 1600*1200/1680*1050. Depends on the monitor you intend to get.

SAPPHIRE 100945L-BK Radeon 7000 64MB 64-bit DDR PCI Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814102447
$29.99

Secondary graphics card. Can drive 2 analogue monitors, or one analogue and one digital via DVI. Could purchase two of these cards if you want to drive a pair of digital monitors. I've always found ATi cards to behave themselves better in multi-monitor setups, especially when the primary card is using a different driver set entirely (as would be the case with the nVidia card listed above).

CORSAIR CMPSU-520HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 520W Power Supply 100 - 240 V UL, CUL, CE, CB, FCC Class B, TUV, CCC, C-tick - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16817139001
$129.99

It's a rebadged Seasonic, modular PSU (use only the cables you need), more than enough power for any system you could make at the moment short of a fire-breathing 10 HD setup + quad-SLI setup or something. Pretty quiet too.


StarTech 2-Outlet USB Plate For PC Motherboards Model USBPLATE - Retail ******x2******

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16812200086
$12.99 x2

You've got three spare USB headers on the motherboard I've listed above. Two of these adapters will use two of those headers and give you four extra rear USB ports. Cheap, too.

Microsoft Windows XP Professional With SP2B 1 Pack - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16832116059
$139.99

Get Vista if you want, but I prefer XP. *shrugs*


Grand total - $1488.87
Azrael
Did they drop the price on Quads lately?

When I started looking I was pricing 2.66s (iirc) and they were kinda quite expensive.

I went with 3.0 duos on a Asus 680 board, so they could be switched out when the quads price dropped.

-granted I still haven't got it fired up yet, hopefully i have time this weekend.

I'm with Menty, go for 4g if you can. I have 2 in the current system and sometimes it still has trouble with the new stuff.

640 8800GTS is good, I did a 768 GTX but I had the extra cash to blow.

Vista, yea that's a waste. stay XP2 for a while at least.
ThrashDog
Yeah, they've run the Quads down a bit from the Extreme line. That's not too bad a price; I thought they were still at around 400+.
Archlight
I'm way behind the times. Menty wins.... lol.

Nice rig man, I may steal it for when I build my own again here soon.
Wildcard
Awesome, guys. Thanks so much for all the work adding those up for me. Between reading the article that Arch linked to, going over Thrash's build component-by-component, and Ment's explanations, I think I've got a lot better grasp of where things stand and where the sweet spots seem to be. In all honesty, I think the system I'll end up building will be sort of a combination of all three of your builds - I got at least one idea from each of you.

A few follow-up questions...
1. When it comes to RAM, four 1GB sticks are consistently cheaper than two 2GB sticks. Is there a compelling reason why everyone suggested 2x2GB sticks?

2. Ment, is this board roughly equivalent to the Blood Iron board you suggested? For starters, the Blood Iron board went on back-order status yesterday, and for another, I'm one of the few people on the planet who actually has a need for an old-fashioned serial port - my GPS unit needs one.
Mentawl
It involves more work for the motherboard, 4 sticks of RAM as opposed to 2. It's probably not a problem, but some boards lower the RAM speed automatically when you populate all the RAM slots - sometimes as much as running your 800mhz RAM down to 667mhz. For stability and speed's sense, I recommend 2x2GB.

Also, the Gigabyte board is fine - didn't realise you needed a 232 port, so I just picked one I knew would be good. Gigabyte is a fine brand too, and that one uses all-solid caps and stuff, so is a good choice.
Cpt_Lemur
One of the reviewers said "NOT nVidea 8800 compatible using supplied SATA cables and IDE is poorly located as well."

Ment had an 8800 lined up for you. Might want to follow up a bit on that see what the real story is.
Wildcard
Meh. The serial port wasn't something worth mentioning. I have a little serial-to-USB dongle-thingy that works most of the time. I was just trying to choose an alternative to the Blood Iron board (that is a cool name, btw) since they seem to have them on back-order, and the Gigabyte having a serial port seemed like a minor nod in its favor.

I did see the comment about the IDE slot being in an odd place, Lemur, but (and I'll admit I don't have a complete grasp on this SATA business yet) I think I'm gonna go with SATA for the hard drives, and with the placement of the opticals in my rackmount case, it shouldn't be a problem. The 8800 comment is worrisome though. Not sure what to make of that.
Mentawl
The 8800-comment sounds to me a lot like someone who doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. I mean, the SATA ports won't even be covered by an 8800GTX, let alone a GTS. I wouldn't worry about it.
Mau
Here's the machine I built a few months ago. 3dmark06 of 7567:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16817371001
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814150171
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16822144701
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16819115005
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16820227120
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16811119077
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16813130081

Other than botching the OS install (entirely a mau-ism), everything went together smoothly and has been workin' just fine ever since. Runs bf2142 wonderfully, even when on the titans. It also leaves some budget headroom that could go toward ram, or another video card for sli.
Wildcard
OK, this looks like the entirety of my order. Anyone see any glaring omissions or major incompatibilities?

Eagle Tech ET-RM4071-BK Black 1.2mm SECC steel 4U Server Case 7 External 5.25" Drive Bays - Retail
The case. My existing case for my current system is pretty much the same model, and I've been really tickled with it. When the new system is done they'll both be mounted on the same rack, and the machine I'm using now will either be used as a network server for the whole family, or an experimental Ubuntu/Linux box, or both.

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
The Mobo. Unless the one that Ment suggested comes off of back-order status before I actually drop the dime.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - Retail
The heart.

G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
The RAM.

HITACHI Deskstar T7K500 HDT725032VLA360 (0A33435) 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM (x2)
Thermaltake A2309 iCage 5.25" bay convert to 3 x 3.5" HDD Module - Retail
LITE-ON Black 20X DVD+R 2MB Cache SATA DVD Burner - Retail (x2)
SAMSUNG Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive Model SFD321B/LBL1 - OEM
The drives and hardware to mount them.

EVGA 640-P2-N821-AR GeForce 8800GTS 640MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
SAPPHIRE 100945L-BK Radeon 7000 64MB 64-bit DDR PCI Video Card - Retail (x2)
The video cards.

Acer AL2017 Abmd Black 20" 5ms DVI LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 800:1 Built in Speakers - Retail
Hanns·G HC-194D Black 19" 8ms DVI LCD Monitor 250 cd/m2 700:1 Built in Speakers - Retail (x2)
The displays. I've been a hardcore CRT holdout for a long time now, but it's time to make the switch - and I'm going to make it across all three monitors. See, one thing that all the photo-editing I've been doing has taught me is that calibrating CRT monitors is a vicious bitch. Calibrating three of them, and making images look consistent across all three has had me tearing my hair out.

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail
Sound card. Onboard sound is theoretically fine, but I've never seen a set-up that had halfway decent software to manage it, so I'm going back to a separate card.

SILVERSTONE SST-FP32-B Aluminum USB/1394/Audio Panel ( Black ) - Retail
Silverstone SST-FP51-B Black Aluminum front panel, steel bracket - Retail
A front panel unit with 4 USB ports and audio jacks for my headphones, plus an adapter to let me mount it in one of the 5.25" bays.

CORSAIR CMPSU-520HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 520W Power Supply - Retail
The juice.

Microsoft Windows XP Professional With SP2B 1 Pack - OEM
The hold-my-nose-and-buy-it-because-I-want-to-play-some-games-and-I-don't-have-time-to-fart-with-hacked-software-anymore operating system.
Mentawl
Looks fine to me. If you're bothered by HD noise, might want to use

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16811999169

instead of the Thermaltake one you listed. I've got one of the Coolermaster ones, and it deadens HD noise a fair bit - has rubber grommets holding the side panels on.

It's only a buck more, depends on your taste really.
Wildcard
Shiny, Ment - thanks.

By the way - I used more parts from you than anybody else's list. You want a new sig-image?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.